Next version of alphaos

Post your comments, questions, bug reports or suggest new features for alphaOS
jonas
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby jonas » 10 Feb 2015, 13:35

crashsite wrote:I usually run in toram mode, so i get good speed and more importantly a fresh & clean OS every time I boot.


What do you mean by "a fresh & clean OS" and how is this related to toram?

Scooby wrote:I made an implementation before that would let you
specify module/ directory as a bootparameter.


That sounds interesting. Could you include it in the next version of alphaos?

crashsite
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby crashsite » 10 Feb 2015, 14:16

The link with toram is thin, but simply that if I don't manually save the changes every thing is lost. It also means that I can thinker with stuff, break things, and reboot to get it up and running again.

I'll try to express things differently : Is there any way to install large programs and still benefit from a live OS ? Is there a way to have a savefile for example that would not be loaded in ram, that could be kept on an external drive but still union-ed? The savefile could then grow bigger than the amount of ram installed on the computer.

Sometimes removing unnecessary sb modules could help, but it may not always be an option. Example : wine + mono + excessively large MS program. Or : wine + steam + a game...

jonas
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby jonas » 10 Feb 2015, 15:53

crashsite wrote:The link with toram is thin, but simply that if I don't manually save the changes every thing is lost. It also means that I can thinker with stuff, break things, and reboot to get it up and running again.


Ah, so if you boot with toram, but without usbmode, changes are not saved automatically at reboot, is that right? How do you manually save the changes?

crashsite wrote:I'll try to express things differently : Is there any way to install large programs and still benefit from a live OS ? Is there a way to have a savefile for example that would not be loaded in ram, that could be kept on an external drive but still union-ed? The savefile could then grow bigger than the amount of ram installed on the computer.


Well, I think if you install programs as bundles with makesb and boot without toram, they will be added to the union without being loaded in ram. If you want to only manually save changes, I guess you could instead boot with usbmode but comment out the save-session command from rc_reboot_poweroff_initiate() in /etc/rc.d/functions.

Scooby
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby Scooby » 10 Feb 2015, 20:57

jonas wrote:That sounds interesting. Could you include it in the next version of alphaos?

Yes could be done that was however in conjunction to being able to boot directly from iso ( same as iso-scan/filename for ubuntu )
but I guess it could be separated out if need be


jonas wrote:Well, I think if you install programs as bundles with makesb and boot without toram, they will be added to the union without being loaded in ram. If you want to only manually save changes, I guess you could instead boot with usbmode but comment out the save-session command from rc_reboot_poweroff_initiate() in /etc/rc.d/functions.


Or boot without a changes.fs4 present ....
Or boot with parameter "fresh" that won't activate savefile even if present

Anyway savefile is not copied to ram with toram

Scooby
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby Scooby » 10 Feb 2015, 21:05

crashsite wrote:I'll try to express things differently : Is there any way to install large programs and still benefit from a live OS ? Is there a way to have a savefile for example that would not be loaded in ram, that could be kept on an external drive but still union-ed? The savefile could then grow bigger than the amount of ram installed on the computer.


crash, try this as an exercise

create a savefile that is bigger than your RAM then load it with or without toram and see wots happening
If you like fill your big savefile with large stuff for example a load of largish movies, try playing them and so on

Does games run well in wine anyway?

You could always buy more RAM, that's the easiest solution I guess :D

crashsite
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby crashsite » 11 Feb 2015, 04:50

Scooby wrote:Anyway savefile is not copied to ram with toram

oh... I re-read your post on the savefile slowly I think I missed the point the first time. :!: I'll try your advice to create a savefile :)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1175&p=3358&hilit=savefile#p3358

Scooby wrote:Does games run well in wine anyway?


From my experience, some are working really well, some are just nightmares, and there is a few in between... PlayOnLinux really helps to manage the settings, wine version and they even provide install scripts that does most of the installation work for you. Performance wise, if you can get good drivers for your hardware, there is not much of a slowdown vs. Windows. But this is just my personal "feeling", I never measured FPS or anything to confirm...
There is most of the time a bit more work involved than Windows...

Scooby wrote:You could always buy more RAM, that's the easiest solution I guess :D

hehehe, I really should... I'll get a new laptop soon which should fix this ;)


jonas wrote:Ah, so if you boot with toram, but without usbmode, changes are not saved automatically at reboot, is that right? How do you manually save the changes?


I manually save the changes by creating an SB module. It can be done with ScoobyTools "sq-session" for example or "sbcomb" if you know the folder directly. Search for ScoobyTools in the forum if you want to look at it. Working really well...

If you boot without a savefile, then nothing is kept after a reboot no matter if toram is used or not. If you use a savefile, then changes are saved no matter if you use toram or not. usbmode is used with a savefile to limit the amount of writes to the usb device. It is meant to preserve your usb key from continuous writes that would end up limiting it's life in the long term.
toram is used to load AlphaOs and your modules all in your RAM memory. Without a active savefile, you can remove your usb stick from your computer after the boot sequence is finished and it will still be running. You also get a speed increase depending on your setup. Accessing RAM is always faster than USB.
* I hope that I got this right :) It's all new to me, only started using AlphaOS a few weeks ago. *

jonas
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby jonas » 11 Feb 2015, 09:40

crashsite wrote:I manually save the changes by creating an SB module. It can be done with ScoobyTools "sq-session" for example or "sbcomb" if you know the folder directly. Search for ScoobyTools in the forum if you want to look at it. Working really well...


Ok, I misunderstood you before. I know you can create an SB module but I thought you were using a savefile.

crashsite wrote:If you boot without a savefile, then nothing is kept after a reboot no matter if toram is used or not.


Exactly, so if you don't use a savefile the link between toram and "a fresh & clean OS" at every reboot is not thin, it is zero.

jonas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014, 11:46

Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby jonas » 11 Feb 2015, 11:03

Scooby wrote:Anyway savefile is not copied to ram with toram

Hmm, that is kind of unintuitive... Did this change at some point because here you said the opposite: http://alphaos.tuxfamily.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1067#p2651
Last edited by jonas on 11 Feb 2015, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.

Scooby
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby Scooby » 11 Feb 2015, 13:55

jonas wrote:Hmm, that is kind of unintuitive... Did this change at some point because here you said the opposite

yep sim and I changed it
Before it would copy savefile to RAM and then
not use that copy.

I think it makes sense. before I stopped using
savefile I often ran with one of size +10GB
more than my RAM

You do know that linux intelligently prefetches
data into RAM so even without toram if you
only booted with base modules and have like 4GB RAM you would feel no difference
jonas wrote:
I'm now very confused about what happens when you boot with savefile and toram parameter. In the init script it looks like a /toram folder is created within the changes directory. Then system and modules (but not savefile) is copied to the /toram folder and the OS is started from there. But what happens if the changes directory is not tmpfs but mounted on a savefile...???

/toram and /changes both reside in folder
/mnt/live/memory so there is no conflict

tmpfs is fully in RAM however with savefile
its more like a bindmount.

I will change this in next version to only cp
*.sb files that is replace the find statement
in copy_to_ram

I have that mod locally now, prevents unnescessary data to inertly occupy RAM

Scooby
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Re: Next version of alphaos

Postby Scooby » 11 Feb 2015, 15:13

Also wanted to add that some work was done towards having a hybrid of savefile and no savefile

That is one that only saved when a button was pressed on desktop.
When pressed saving all in RAM to savefile.

The user who requested it lost interest so it is probably not completely bugfree

read here


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